Jordan Firstman

Bruce: You can hear the birds chirping.
Jordan: This interview is all about birds.
So where to begin? What do you think of Woody Allen?
Legend. Unproblematic King. (laughs) But really, do you want to know? I think he’s great. I could watch, I still do. It’s my comfort food. The thing is, with a lot of these canceled men,they were literally telling us the whole time.Woody was literally dating a 17-year-old.
Which is the age of consent in New York state, by the way.
Obviously, we know that he’s into younger women. And then when people find out he’s into younger women, they’re like, ‘Gasp!’ A big problem is the obsession with the drama more than the actual thing. It’s two people with issues, having their issues. So many families have these weird dark secrets, but they don’t have the entire world checking in every year, like, ‘How are your secrets shaping up?’ I just want it to stop. The obsession with celebrities in general is horrible.
Did you see the Woody #MeToo doc?
Yeah, I think it’s absolutely preposterous.
With him lurking around in the background.
You can’t have an unbiased documentary that only has interviews from one side of the drama.
I love Woody Allen and I love Mia Farrow and I don’t know them. I like their work. That’s it.
Art has meant more to me than life. I am the kind of a person that appreciates art. You have to draw the line somewhere. I’m not a huge Bill Cosby fan, but maybe if he meant as much to me as Woody Allen did, I would maybe be defending him too. It’s the Michael Jackson thing. People won’t admit it. They love him too much, they just can’t let him go.
That seems more definitive.
He’s still played in every supermarket in the world.
Yeah, and every turntable.
And people go crazy when a Michael Jackson song comes on. It’s the hypocrisy. You either don’t support anything that the artists have ever made, or you can separate the artist from the art.
You can’t cut them out of history like a paper doll. They literally cut Kevin Spacey out of that movie and replaced him with Christopher Plummer. It’s also all based on business and the box office. It’s not really about the moral…
Not to bring it back to Woody Allen, but if Woody Allen was doing Michael Jackson numbers, they probably would still be letting Woody Allen make work. I’m not that upset about it because he should retire. The last couple of years ain’t hitting like they used to.
Recently, I heard that you’re trying to fuck a woman. Back in the day, like, way back in the 90s, my friends and I used to joke that the ultimate kinkiest thing was sex with a woman, to fuck a pussy. It was like, ‘What haven’t we done? Fisting, bestiality – we’ve done everything!’
After I fucked all those dogs, I was like…
Pussy is the one holy grail, the taboo, for gay men.
It’s not a subversive thing for me.
And it shouldn’t be for anyone.
I don’t like being around gay men anymore. Recently, I went to a gay thing – actually, last weekend – and I hated every moment of it. When I was walking out with a friend, he was like–
–Is he gay?
Yeah, he’s gay. He was like, ‘Well, it’s a good affirmation that you know what you don’t want.’ And I’m like, ‘How many affirmations do I need before I stop? That was like the 400th affirmation that I don’t want to be here. And I keep going back.’ I don’t see the point in gay culture anymore. We don’t need a community in the way we used to. Find people with other interests besides your fucking depravity.
It also doesn’t make sense in an era of assimilation. I think it makes more sense if you’re in Russia or somewhere else.
100%, but like we have no need for it anymore.
It’s limiting.
And it’s become like a toxic relationship where everyone’s just being mean to each other. Everyone’s doing drugs. Fucking people they hate and being mean to each other. It’s literally an abusive relationship. Obviously, I’m tongue-in-cheek when I say I want to fuck a woman because I only want to fuck men.

But you did say that you licked pussy recently.
I licked pussy, but that too was also like tongue-in-pussy-cheek. Even after I licked one and then I touched one in January. The touching one went down like, I asked my friend, ‘Babe, can I touch it? I want to understand it more.’
Which is what gay men should do.
After doing that extensive research, I still don’t fully understand. Did I mention I recently shot a movie in Mexico? I have real sex in it.
Oh, no, way.
With Sebastián Silva. It’s called ‘Rotting in the Sun’ and it comes out later this year.
What’s it about?
It’s very meta. I play myself. He plays himself. It’s kind of like a Woody Allen, a suicide Mexican farce. But I play just the worst version of myself. This influencer gringo who comes in and is obsessive and, like, chaotic. But I’m having sex like the whole movie. There’s a lot of sex.
Like penetration?
I don’t know if they use any of the penetration. I’m definitely deep throating cock and I get my dick sucked and I get my ass eaten. I’m around double penetration. (both laugh)
You’re double penetration adjacent. How did you hook up with Sebastián?
There’s actually lot about how we met in the film. We met really, really randomly at Plaza Río de Janeiro in Mexico City. It was fate, like, I’m not going to beat around the bush, it was fate.
Who recognized who?
It’s a story. I hooked up with this guy who I’d met the night before. We were on a bunch of ketamine and he hated Jewish people. It was kind of–
–A fuck?
Exactly. But then he started getting very violent, biting me REALLY hard while we were having sex and choking me, like with his elbow, not his hand.
Was he trying to kill you?
No, he wasn’t, but it was in the ether. All I know is that he doesn’t like Jewish people. And then he’s trying to kill me, like I could’ve died. But it was funny.
How did you know that he didn’t like Jewish people?
He told me, but we were having fun. It was a weird ketamine conversation. I thought it was kind of scary, kind of hot. And then after we fucked, I showed him one of Sebastián’s films and I hadn’t thought about Sebastián in probably five years. I once watched a Q&A where he was so pretentious and annoying. I think I was jealous of him. The next morning, this hook-up is like, ‘I’m gonna take my dog for a walk. Meet me at the Plaza.’ So, I go to the park and I see the guy and he’s flirting with some other guy. And of course, it’s Sebastián.
Oh, my God.
Their dogs were playing with each other. I didn’t even know Sebastián lived in Mexico City.
Did you recognize him? Or he introduced himself?
I recognized him immediately. I was so mortified that this guy was going to be like, ‘We watched your movie last night.’ It was just embarrassing. But we ended up chatting and hanging out again a week later.
Did you hook-up?
We didn’t hook-up. I really thought we would the whole time. Even when he called me about the movie. I was like, ‘We’re gonna fuck.’ I always thought we were gonna fuck until we started shooting. And I realized, like, how much of a nightmare he is that my sexual feelings for him went away. (laughs) I was feeling a little bit romantic, but that’s also in the movie. I’m obsessed with him romantically.
There are autobiographical aspects of the movie, you kind of play yourselves. Does he play the director?
He plays Sebastián Silva, like his last movie flops or didn’t come out, and he wants to kill himself.
Is that what happened?
(laughs) Yeah, there’s a lot of autobiographical stuff, but then it takes new turns.
Cool, but the film also allowed you to be more open about your sexuality? It’s not pornographic, but it’s openly sexual. Was that liberating?
I found it very liberating. It was hard. It’s the weird thing about it. There are five scenes with sex. For some of them it was like water, the easiest thing. I had to take Viagra and shit. But even for the hardest one, the Viagra didn’t work.
Was it clear from the beginning that sex would be in the film?
I told him I wanted to do real sex and stuff. And then he also had the idea too. It just kind of made sense. I had been approached earlier in the year by Brazzers to make a porn and my agents didn’t let me do it.
Oh, my God, that’s fun. You’ve been thoroughly objectified by the gay community. You know, you’re like a thirst trap for a lot of people.
Yeah, but the deal is I hate my body. Like I really don’t like the thing. That’s the biggest issue for me. If you don’t like it, it doesn’t matter how many people say that they like it. Sometimes I can accept it. But then, more often than not, I’m not a fan, which is like maybe if I were to look deeper, it’s why I want to show it so much. Maybe one day the validation will rub off on me.
Who are you having sex with in the Silva movie?
There’s one orgy scene with five guys. So, five guys there. This one Argentinian bear eats my ass. This Mexican fire twirler chokes on my cock.
Wow, really?
Yeah, you see him choke on my cock and then within like three minutes, he’s twirling fire. He was very difficult on set. (laughs)
What was your first experience with pornography?
(laughs) That’s how I was outed. My parents found porn on my computer.
And you were how old at that point?
I was like, 12. Yeah, I came out at like 12, 13.
So, you were openly gay in high school?
Yeah.
This blows my mind.
I’ve always been a very crafty, very resourceful person. I made it work. They tried to bully me, but I obviously was friends with all the popular girls.
That hasn’t changed. That was the same with me in the 70s. And the sluts.
The gays are friends of the sluts.
They’re a little more sophisticated. They have older boyfriends. If you came out at that age, then what about gender? Did you ever question?
I have a lot of femininity in me. I’ve always been very comfortable with it. I don’t know. I feel like because I’m flamboyant and a Jew. I think it’s a Jewish thing. Maybe. I’ve just always been very confident in my masculinity and femininity.

Oh, so what about this ‘Ms. Marvel’ series you’re working on…
I play like the guidance counselor, but it’s a funny role. I’m not hot in it. But I was looking on Twitter and all of these teenage boys are like, ‘We want to fuck Mr. Wilson.’ My audience has never been teenagers. It’s weird for me. I don’t want teenage boys looking at me. It makes me uncomfortable.
Well, it’s just like, fucking a woman. It’s something you can get over.
I don’t want to corrupt them. You know what I mean? I think that people find me when they’re ready to find me.
Yeah, well, it sounds like they’re ready.
Maybe as a guidance counselor in high school, but then when they go to my Instagram, they’re gonna see a completely different thing. I’ve weirdly gotten away with doing a lot on the Internet.
Do you mean on social media?
Yeah, I used to go live and just do like rails of ketamine and just like talk.
But would you actually do the ketamine?
I did it a couple of times.
How’s your sense of humor on Instagram?
I’ve created a real barrier between me and my audience, like, because of the impressions I’m never fully myself. It’s not as if I’m being funny on ketamine, I’m just like, being myself. I think they like that.
But are you coherent?
The dangerous part of my drug use is how good I am at doing them.
Oh, that’s a good question. Why are gay people taking so many drugs?
I think everyone likes drugs, but they’re just more part of our culture – it’s like acceptable to do it. If every straight person was doing drugs all the time, they would all be doing drugs all the time.

Are you seeing someone, Jordan?
I think I am. Oh, no, I am.
How long has it been going on?
It’s been a saga. I first fell for him three years ago. Oh, and then there’s been a lot of chapters – during the pandemic, before the pandemic, during the relationship, at the tail end of the relationship.
You fell for him?
It took a while to figure out. We were in very different locations geographically. It’s a long, complicated story. But we’re both very into each other right now. And it’s the best thing I’ve ever been in. He’s a really, really good person. And so sexy and cute.
Yay!
But disclaimer – Boys, if you’re listening, we can still do stuff, too.
I mean, come on.
You know, a slut is a slut is a slut.
Anyways, how did the impressions start? Like what was the lightbulb?
There wasn’t really a lightbulb. It was like, the pandemic happened. I had just gotten out of a really bad relationship. I was working on a TV show and then it got killed. All this shit for a year.
Yeah, we all went through that.
I had two feature films in development. They sucked. It’s a reality that I don’t think ever really gets easier. Because I put my whole life into the project and then when it got killed, it broke my heart. Like there’s no in between. I could dissociate and just write this thing. But then it’s not going to be good enough to get made, or I write something really good, but then I’m going to care about it so much that it’s going to absolutely ruin my life if nothing happens with it.
There are no half measures. A lot of people just kind of phone in stuff.
And then it gets made. Maybe I’ll be able to one day.
Was there a point when you started going in a different direction with the impressions?
I was getting so much praise. It’s really hard to see anything when you’re getting that much praise. I won the lottery in a way. Yeah, I definitely won the lottery. All lottery winners spend everything, and then kill themselves. (laughs)
Everyone around you starts wanting some action.
Now I look back at the impressions that were the most popular, the ones that got me the most famous.
Like the impression you did of a loaf banana bread.
I can’t even. That impression is so far from what I think is good and funny.
I wouldn’t say it’s the best. I’m not sure why it was the most popular maybe because everyone was making banana bread at home.
I learned a lot about audiences during that process. I learned a lot about positivity too. It was also a time when people really needed positivity.
Well the banana bread was pretty absurdist too.
Which is one thing I love about it. I look at the Internet now and I see what I did. Like the style of comedy that’s on TikTok. These Gen Z kids, they don’t even know who I am, but I know that I’m their mother.
It trickled down.
Yeah, no one was doing impressions of inanimate objects before I was doing it.
It’s become a meme. A viral became a viral.
But now I can’t do them.
It’s blocked or it just sticks in your throat?
It’s partly my pathology too, for better or for worse. I don’t like doing things that have been done before or that I see other people doing. Now it’s like everyone’s doing an impression of the table watching them sleep. I can’t do it anymore. But it sucks because it was mine. That’s what happens, I guess.
Does mainstream success appeal to you? Because it’s totally within your grasp. I mean, it may happen.
It is appealing to me. When I was growing up, I always would hear an actor be like, ‘One for me, one for them, and I better shut up.’ I have a bit of a leg up because of my irony. Even me playing a guidance counselor in ‘Ms. Marvel’. There’s a bit of irony there, like I would love to be in the next ‘Godzilla’ movie.
With Bobby Money Mommy Billy Brown.
With Baby Barbie Bibby Bobby Boop. But yeah, like me having a scene with Godzilla and Millie would be great. A bit role. Like, that’s it. I can cheat the system a little. By doing, quote unquote bad thing. But I’m not getting offers for ‘Godzilla’.
It’s all those classic Hollywood characters like, the gay characters that now everyone says are horrible clichés.
They’re actually the most fun. They’re the reason why I watched those movies. I’m fine being the guy who comes in and is funny and steals the scene. And then in my own work, I get to do what I really want to do. Acting isn’t my passion. I don’t get that high, embodying someone else’s shoes, like, I don’t care. I say the lines, and I say them the best that I can. Writing and filmmaking is where my heart is. I have to continue being an online persona because if I can make my living doing these fucking Instagram paid posts just so I can continue to write, then that’s freedom.

Did you already have an agent?
I recently did a team overhaul. But I spent the first year of the impressions with the same team I’d been with since I was 24. People think I got successful overnight, but I’ve written for three hit TV shows. I was happy with my career. But the way people act is like there was a “before times”, like they ask, ‘What were you doing before you had popular videos on Instagram? You must have been so sad and scared.’ But it was going pretty well. None of the things I wanted to make got made, but I was fine. It’s definitely more interesting now. The opportunities are way more dynamic.
They’re really coming hither and yon.
I go through months where I’m like, ‘Everything’s over!’ I’m a Hollywood Jew. I’m obsessed with my career and I think it’s over every day.
What else should we talk about?
Maybe a couple more salacious things.
How old were you when you lost your virginity?
Oh!! No one has ever asked me that before.
And what kind of virginity?
I think the first time I sucked dick was maybe 13 or 14.
That’s called child abuse.
And yeah, he was…
He was 12.
55. And my dad was a lovely man. (both laugh)
Oh, my God. That’s one of those jokes that you can’t tell anymore.
The first time I lost my virginity, my like, butt virginity, or my anal in general, I topped for the first time. But he was this guy that I hated. HATED. My worst enemy. And he had this famous line, his trademark at the school, he would say, ‘I’ll ruin your life.’ And then he would. He was a monster. He was the first one I had sex with. (laughs)
Was he hot?
No! He had a huge cock though.
So then he was hot.
The inside was so disgusting that it was like–
–Ideal. (laughs)
I was like, ‘I don’t want to lose my virginity to this guy. Like, let’s just stay like jerking each other off at sleepovers.’ And he was like, ‘I’ll give you the best head of your life if you just stick it in me.’ I didn’t realize at the time, obviously, that I was going to come in two seconds if I jammed it in his ass. So, I never got the good blow job. But that’s what happened.
So, 13?
No, 15 for anal.
There are so many different kinds of virginity.
I think this has to be something to do with the way I am, but the first guy I ever hooked up with was at a slumber party-ish thing with a bunch of people. We jerked each other off and then he couldn’t deal with it. So, he pretended he was possessed and then started throwing up.
Are you sure he was pretending?
I possessed him! (laughs)
And when was the first time you fell in love?
Um, around 14. I was doing ‘Oklahoma’ in community theater. I was putting on this guy’s cowboy boots in the middle school bathroom. And like, he smelled like fucking Abercrombie Fierce or whatever. And I was literally picturing our lives together…
Had ‘Brokeback Mountain’ come out at that point?
I don’t think so. I think it was right before.
And did ‘Brokeback Mountain’ have a…?
No. Didn’t even cross my radar. My gay awakenings was the ‘Real World’. There’s a character named Willie and there’s a scene where he’s making out with a guy in the shower.=
I like that we call him a character. (laughs)
Yeah, he’s a real person. He was huge for me. And also, the models in ‘Zoolander’ that die in the gasoline car accident. I was obsessed with them.
I don’t know what else we should cover. Wait, look at the rainbow…
Is there a real rainbow?
Yeah.
Oh, wow. That’s a huge rainbow. Oh, my God! That’s like, bigger than the whole city.
It’s a big one.
Happy Pride.

BUTT note: ‘Rotting in the Sun’ debuts on 8 September 2023 at Picturehouse Central, presented by MUBI. Grab tickets here. And watch the trailer here.