When Carlo Meets Carla Antonelli

Carlo: So you’ve gone viral.
Carla: I’m just doing my job. You see, I’m a Senator in the Spanish Senate and an independent deputy in the Assembly of Madrid. The speech everyone saw took place in the Assembly. But right now, there are also three initiatives in the Senate from two right-wing parties, Vox and Partido Popular, with similar intentions to revoke the 2023 national Trans Law, or Ley Trans, which grants every person the right to gender self-identification.
What kind of protections does Ley Trans provide?
The national law is comprehensive – it includes both trans and LGBTQ+ rights. One of its most important provisions we’ve achieved – which sparked a false controversy – is the depathologization and self-determination of trans people. No need for a medical certificate, nor a diagnosis of gender dysphoria – none of that’s required to officially change gender. It’s about self-determination.
So obviously the far right wants to abolish the law… Why do you think these right-wing politicians attacked you so aggressively?
Look, I gave a seven-minute speech. It came from all these feelings I have about these politicians wasting time, all these years, to bring this debate to the legislatures and to the Congress of Deputies about our lives, our rights… That’s why I began by saying: ‘What did we do to become the villains of the world?’ We’ve become scapegoats for their misery and shame. We’re their diversion, while they spread hate in society. They keep pointing fingers at us. They treat us like criminals. It’s harsh to say this, but Europe’s historical memory reminds us of what happened before World War II with the Jews. It started by instilling hatred little by little, until eventually a climate was created in which people, without realizing it, normalized hatred toward Jews. The same is happening with us, trans people.
But it hasn’t been such a terrible time in the West for the community – at least not the worst time ever, don’t you think?
What a short-term view. If there ever was a better time, it’s ended. What we’re experiencing now isn’t just a Spanish moment – it’s global. Look at Georgia Meloni, the Italian Prime Minister, what’s the first thing she did when she came to power? She blocked a lesbian couple from adopting their child. What did it cost her? Nothing. But how much press coverage did she get? A lot. What’s it costing Trump or Javier Milei, the President of Argentina, or other fascists around the world, to do these things? Very little. How much exposure do they get? A lot – and at whose expense? Our lives. They’ve turned us into scapegoats and, while implementing their utterly capitalist, selfish policies, we’re the distraction. We’re being used. We’re the ones to hate. We’re their favorite sport.
You have an extremely powerful, volcanic rhetorical strength in your voice in the speech – it’s like the title of your biography, ‘Women Volcán’.
In the end, I’m speaking my truth, transmitting rage, helplessness, asking why? Why have we become the scapegoats? Why Trump? One of his most impactful acts recently was signing a ban on trans women participating in sports at the White House, surrounded by little blonde girls. It looked like a scene of Hitler surrounded by children. Are they teaching those kids to hate trans people?
Your now-famous line: ‘We will not return to the margins.’ What did you mean when you said this?
It means we’ve left the margins behind – we’ve stepped out of the mud, off the streets of prostitution, of family abandonment, not being able to study or hold responsible jobs. We’re slowly integrating into society – studying, having careers. When we were in the streets, doing sex work, the fascists didn’t come after us in politics or the media, they just beat us up. Now we infuriate them because we’re visible, because we’re everywhere, in the Legislature, in the Senate – they have to look us in the face and that’s intolerable for them. But as I said before, we’re not going back to the margins. We’re here and we’re not leaving.
What do you think the word “trans” means today?
Well, over time, many terms have been used. Words evolve. In the 70s, we were “transvestites”. Then we became “transsexuals”. In the English-speaking world, the term “transgender” has become common.
Including people who have undergone gender-affirming surgery?
No one makes that distinction anymore. You’re a trans woman whether or not you’ve had surgery. I don’t use any word to differentiate. Because neither you nor I walk down the street lifting our skirts or pulling down our pants.
In your Senate speech, you talked about the morbid curiosity regarding the “mutilation” of one’s body.
No, that’s not correct. What I said is we’re on everyone’s minds all the time. They want to know if we’ve had surgery, if we have orgasms. In the Madrid Assembly, a Vox deputy really asked that. That’s how invasive they’ve become these days – the public discourse is very, very sad.
Let’s go back to little Carla. She had a very strong personality, right? It’s pretty easy to imagine.
I come from the Canary Islands, from a small town called Güímar on Tenerife. I ran away from home at 17 and when I came out to my family, they turned their backs on me. Since then, I’ve resumed contact with some of them – especially my sister, who has always been there. As I say in my speech – in 1979, my father died and I wasn’t informed. They didn’t tell me because it would’ve been shameful to have a trans person at the funeral. That’s what I say at the end: they want our families to reject us again, just like my father did. I couldn’t attend that damn funeral. But life evolves. Today, in my hometown, there’s a street named after me, near the house where I grew up. And on 9 May, they’re awarding me the Gold Medal of the island of Tenerife. What all of this means is we can – and must – write our own stories.
What do you remember best from childhood?
In the Canaries, the sky is incredible for stargazing. In fact, Europe’s best observatories are there. At night, I’d climb up onto the roof and look at the sky. My imagination would take flight. It still does.